He’s generalising, and so was I. I don’t have any statistics to hand to “prove” it, but I’ve heard it before.

The immigration issue is a symptom of the same problem (if you want to call it that), and that is that consumerism and what the Rabbi calls “selfishness” do have a long term effect. Can anyone deny that changes that have already come about in our society due to consumerism? The greed and need for more things and more money (Credit Crunch anyone?). And who hasn’t heard numerous times people saying that they don’t want children because of their career or they are simply having too much “fun”.

You’re right nobody has children for the good of society, everyone has their own reasons and/or accidents. But it’s the overall picture that I was talking about.

I find it interesting that whatever the consequences that we can see of consumerism are (good and bad), that the ultimate consequence might be the long-term self-eradication of any culture that embraces it.

That’s not a judgement on anyone, just a observation of life. Like I said I don’t have any statistics that might back it up, but even so it’s not heard to see how it might be happening.

For starters when I read “indigenous populations” it reminds me a lot of what I have been reading and watching about “race” recently.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/race-and-intelligence-sciences-last-taboo/articles/race-a-history

What is an indigenous population? What is the significance?

Also, I’m reading this cool book at the minute called “Immigrants: your country needs them” Which says very similar things to you about how there are so many jobs in the west which much of the native population perceive as beneath them, yet puts up barriers to hard working migrants who are desperate for any kind of work. It mainly outlines the fiscal advantages for the west of economic migration, but also convincingly argues that from a moral standpoint there should be more not less immigration.

Best argument I read so far: the developed world gives around ~100 billion dollars per year to developing nations as aid – with all the problems associated with fair distribution and political conditionality. The author reckons economic migrants from developing countries send back ~300 billion a year!!!!! – to their families, communities and local economies. (based on data from 2004) Whilst it is probably not a perfect system it seems to me this is something we should hardly be trying to stop!

But I have to disagree with you about your thoughts on procreation! I can’t think of anyone who has babies (deliberately) out of consideration for others! They do it because they want to. It might result in a benefit for others – but that is not the reason. I would guess in developing countries this would be even more the case, where sometimes having children is carried out for future comfort. Isn’t all this selfishness?

Importantly, are those sections of our society not having children (deliberately) the same sections that would complain about immigration?